Talk: Winged Velociraptor (3.5e Race)

So, yeah...

3.5 Homebrew Race List

... So, how do I get this onto the homebrew list? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Halen2020 (talk • contribs)

Give it a few days and it'll be automatically added once the server re-updates itself :-) --Ghostwheel 19:03, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Cool... I gotta ask, is this a dumb idea? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Halen2020 (talk • contribs)

Bonuses to four ability scores and a 60' Good fly speed with no level adjustment or hit dice is a little excessive. --Foxwarrior 19:36, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, a net +4 on abilities, fly speed with good maneuverability, and magical beast type (that makes them immune to most of the low level charms and whatnot) is a lot strong for a ECL 1 / LA +0 race. I'd honestly add 2 or 3 racial hit dice to them and make them ECL 2 or 3 / LA +0 to offset their benefits. That or pull flight, drop a couple of +2s, and change the type to humanoid (reptilian) or whatever. - TarkisFlux 21:52, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

More input: If you really want to keep the flight and the ability bonuses, racial hit dice are the way to go. If you imagine racial hit dice as mandatory class levels, and prevent play anywhere before that, it should help you get an idea of where these guys fit at. Flight is generally very good before 5th level, at which point it starts to become more common (among spellcastering classes first). If you can live without the high ability scores, you'll have to find some to drop. Too many ability score changes is very off-putting for most players anyhow, since it only takes a little penalty on a needed ability score to completely prevent someone from picking it. As for flight, if you don't want racial hit dice (and you should always avoid LA), go for a glide progression instead. The flavor generally always works as well with "the young ones don't have developed flight muscles yet and need practice", granting full flight at 5 HD. --Ganteka Future 20:54, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

+34 skill bonus total? Most races have a limit of +6 for that. Also, a BLS of 40ft puts them faster than most races in the game. Havvy 03:07, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

I have reduced the skill bonuses, but the speed I am not changing. We are talking about a creature who's average max speed over land is 25-30 miles per hour. I have also removed the constitution bonus and increased the charisma penalty to -4. I have also added a flight practice penalty, basically saying that the player must dedicate so many days to practicing, and if they dont, they incur a penalty. And finally, I have added an exotic languages penalty.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Halen2020 (talk • contribs)

The Language Barrier's funny, so I'll approve of it, but the Flight Practice is a bad scheme. Some campaigns have months at a time where nothing is happening, making it easy to get all those practice days in, while other campaigns have a fast enough pace that the campaign will be over before the Winged Velociraptor learns to fly. This mechanic is highly unreliable. Also, if you want to achieve a max speed over land of 25-30 miles per hour, then a 45' or 50' base land speed and the Run feat as a bonus feat is probably the least powerful simple way to do it. --Foxwarrior 18:53, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

So, how should I limit the flight? I can't limit it by age, because all of the raptors learn the basics at about age 5, which is when they are large enough to begin really hunting. Perhaps a certain amount of practice per month, to mantain wing strength? I mean, it's not like that's something you can do whilst exploring mines. Heck, it only takes bird a few days to master flight. How is it handled for dragons? How long before they can fly?

Regarding Language Barrier, I made it so that if it happens, NPC attitudes go down one step. User:Halen2020|Halen2020]] 19:49, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Regarding racial hit dice, I have no idea what those are, so if someone could explain them using small words, that would be awesome. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Halen2020 (talk • contribs)

The idea is that he has a few hit dice of "Magical Beast" or whatever type he is. That gives him hit points, BAB, save bonuses, basically all of the things that a level would give him but without any of the class features. You can read more about how they interact with Level Adjustment and Effective Chracter Level (as well as the table that gives out the hit die information) over here. - TarkisFlux 18:02, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

That would give them hit dice of d10, then, right? Is this used in place of the die your class says you roll to find your hp?Halen2020 18:31, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but racial hit die are taken in place of class levels. They make you advance as a creature (giving skills, feats, and such) but don't give any class features at all. It's the price you have to pay for playing a powerful race. - TG Cid 19:33, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Meaning that in order to make the Raptor something people would want to play, I would have to come up with a huge list of things you can get instead of getting to level the character's class.Halen2020 19:54, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

. no, what people mean is give it like 3 or 4 d10 hd. then go look at magical beast type and give it what a magcal beast of theat hd would have, i.e. skill points, bab, stuff like that. after that then it takes class levels as normal-NV

So, how long would it take a D10 mc to start leveling its class? Can someone explain this in terms that I do not have to look up? Halen2020 20:09, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

look at any pre existing magical beast, like griffin. it has HD. it doesnt have class abilities, it has griffin abilities. completely forget about class for a minute. here is the magical beast traits Magical Beast Type

Magical beasts are similar to animals but can have Intelligence scores higher than 2. Magical beasts usually have supernatural or extraordinary abilities, but sometimes are merely bizarre in appearance or habits.

Features

A magical beast has the following features.

   * 10-sided Hit Dice.
   * Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (as fighter).
   * Good Fortitude and Reflex saves.
   * Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die. 

[edit] Traits

A magical beast possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

   * Darkvision out to 60 feet and low-light vision.
   * Proficient with its natural weapons only.
   * Proficient with no armor.
   * Magical beasts eat, sleep, and breathe. 

Now pick a number of hd. that will give them some benefits. so if you pick 4 hd for example, someone could play as a winged raptor at 4th level. a winged raptor rogue 3 would be a 7th level character, with 4d10 hd and 3d6 hd. are you getting it yet?NameViolation 20:33, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, now I kinda do. So, when DO classes start to level?Halen2020 20:46, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

i dont know what you mean by when do classes start to level. think of it this way, pick a # of hd. thats how many "racial levels" it takes to be this creature. a dwarf has no racial hd, so it can just take class levels. this is significantly more powerful than a dwarf, so it should have racial hd. so if you give this 4 hd, it can be played in a party of 4th level characters, but it wont have any class levels. once it gets enough xp to achieve level 5 it can take its 1st class level. You're goint to HAVE to look up other things in order to fully understand how the system works. there is no point in us copying everything that already exists and reprinting it on this talk page. use some Search-fu--NameViolation 21:11, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

If you decided that the abilities this race had were appropriate for a 5th level character, and gave them 5 racial hit dice, then they would be a 5th level character out of the box. There would be no 4th level winged raptors unless they were kids or whatever. To advance beyond that 5th level mark, they'd have to take class levels, like fighter or wizard or whatever. And at that point it's just like multiclassing into a new class, since you always have 5 levels or winged raptor with you. So if your character sheet said Fighter 1 on it, it would really mean Winged Raptor 5, Fighter 1 and you'd be a 6th level character because of the racial hit dice. Basically, they level normally you just treat their racial hit dice as previous levels in a class that doesn't count against favored class stuff and that you can't take any more levels in. - TarkisFlux 21:13, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, now I get it. I think, maybe... Racial level 5.

Hey Tarkis, nice edits. I like the new Racial Traits.Halen2020 17:41, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

the text says it has 3 feats from hd, it should only be 2. 1st and 3rd level.--NameViolation 23:03, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

EXP hit

Would a Winged Velociraptor take an EXP hit in class levels because of its Racial Hit Dice?

Sorta. It's got 5 "levels" of Magical Beast, so the first level of anything else it takes is actually it's 6th level and thus needs 6th level worth of xp to get there (just like a regular multiclass). It's not really a penalty like LA is though, because you have hit dice and related bonuses instead of just some abilities. You don't get to go as high in the classes as other characters, but that's a standard multiclass thing.

If it helps, you can just give them 10k xp, start them as a 5th level character with no levels in any class yet (you can do that with racial hit dice) and let them go up the chart as normal. When they hit 15k, they get to pick a level in a new class. - TarkisFlux 20:52, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

No I mean, like say you got a level 5 fighter picks up a level in wizard. He takes a exp hit because of the level difference. Would that happen with a level 5 Winged Velociraptor taking up a level in a class?Halen2020 16:21, August 28, 2010 (UTC)